{"id":93327,"date":"2023-06-01T16:12:11","date_gmt":"2023-06-01T21:12:11","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/milesfortis.com\/?p=93327"},"modified":"2023-06-01T16:12:11","modified_gmt":"2023-06-01T21:12:11","slug":"93327","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/milesfortis.com\/?p=93327","title":{"rendered":""},"content":{"rendered":"<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.opb.org\/article\/2023\/06\/01\/oregon-gun-firearm-law-high-capacity-magazine-measure-114-\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">New Oregon gun law, Measure 114, to face federal court test next week<\/a><\/p>\n<p class=\"article-body__text article-body--padding color_dgray m-none\">Oregonians passed\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.opb.org\/article\/2022\/10\/18\/oregon-measure-114-gun-laws-permits-safety-class-magazine-limits\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Measure 114<\/a>\u00a0in November. It would ban the manufacture, purchase or sale of magazines capable of holding more than 10 rounds of ammunition. It would also require people to take a safety course and pass a background check to get a permit allowing them to purchase firearms. But before the law went into effect, it ran into\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.opb.org\/article\/2023\/01\/06\/status-oregon-new-gun-laws-measure-114-leagal-challenges\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">a flurry of legal challenges<\/a>\u00a0at the state and federal levels.<\/p>\n<p class=\"article-body__text article-body--padding color_dgray m-none\">The\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.opb.org\/article\/2023\/02\/09\/oregon-gun-law-supreme-court-measure-114-block\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">state case<\/a>\u00a0is expected to pick up again in September. And several bills\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.opb.org\/article\/2023\/04\/02\/oregon-legislators-move-to-pass-gun-restrictions-held-up-in-state-court\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">meant to tighten Oregon\u2019s gun laws<\/a>\u00a0are among the legislation sidelined by the Republican-led walkout in the Oregon Senate.<\/p>\n<p class=\"article-body__text article-body--padding color_dgray m-none\">In the meantime, the federal bench trial \u2014 no jury \u2014 starts next week in Portland and will be heard by U.S. District Court Judge Karin Immergut, a Trump appointee. The federal trial, which is slated to run for five days, will result in a first ruling about whether the new law is legal under the U.S. Constitution. No matter what Immergut decides, the ruling will likely be appealed, possibly all the way up to the U.S. Supreme Court.<\/p>\n<p class=\"article-body__text article-body--padding color_dgray m-none\">A lawyer for one of the groups hoping to overturn the law declined an invitation to come on Think Out Loud this week, citing the pending case. But a lawyer for the state, Michael Kron, did agree to come on the show and spoke to host Dave Miller on Wednesday. Kron is special counsel to the State Attorney General and is part of the legal team defending the voter-passed law.<\/p>\n<p class=\"article-body__text article-body--padding color_dgray m-none\"><i>This conversation has been edited for length and clarity.<\/i><\/p>\n<p><!--more--><\/p>\n<p class=\"article-body__text article-body--padding color_dgray m-none\"><i><b>Dave Miller:\u00a0<\/b><\/i><i>Can you remind us more fully what Measure 114 does?<\/i><\/p>\n<p class=\"article-body__text article-body--padding color_dgray m-none\"><b>Michael Kron:\u00a0<\/b>Of course. I think you actually did cover it pretty well. There are three primary things that the law accomplishes.<\/p>\n<p class=\"article-body__text article-body--padding color_dgray m-none\">The first is to require permits for people who are purchasing firearms. Those permits are issued by local law enforcement and involve a background check conducted by the state police. They cost a limited amount of money and they require a firearm safety course. And then, if you haven\u2019t heard back from your application [after 30 days], they provide you with the right to go to court to get an answer.<\/p>\n<p class=\"article-body__text article-body--padding color_dgray m-none\">The second thing Measure 114 does is that it limits the capacity of magazines for firearms. If you have a magazine currently that holds more than 10 rounds, you can keep it. But the ways in which you can use it are limited unless you permanently alter it so that it holds 10 rounds or less.<\/p>\n<p class=\"article-body__text article-body--padding color_dgray m-none\">And then finally, it closes what is known as the \u201cCharleston loophole.\u201d The Charleston loophole is a [federal] law that allows firearm transactions to proceed without a completed background check if the background check has been requested by the firearm dealer, but has taken more than three days to complete. [Measure 114] requires a completed background check.<\/p>\n<p class=\"article-body__text article-body--padding color_dgray m-none\"><i><b>Miller:<\/b><\/i><i>\u00a0The plaintiffs [in the federal case] raised six different constitutional challenges. The first and longest is that Measure 114\u2032s permitting provisions violate the Second Amendment. And they begin their arguments by pointing to the Supreme Court\u2019s 2022 Bruen case where justices found that a New York State law was unconstitutional. That law required people to show some kind of special need in order to get a license to carry a concealed pistol.<\/i><\/p>\n<p class=\"article-body__text article-body--padding color_dgray m-none\"><i>What\u2019s your contention in terms of the relevance of this Bruen decision?<\/i><\/p>\n<p class=\"article-body__text article-body--padding color_dgray m-none\"><b>Kron:\u00a0<\/b>The state\u2019s argument on that point is that the Bruen decision specifically allows for permitting regimes that are \u201cshall issue,\u201d meaning that the person who\u2019s administering the permitting process is required to issue permits to people who meet the qualifications, which are fairly minimal.<\/p>\n<p class=\"article-body__text article-body--padding color_dgray m-none\">There\u2019s a specific footnote in Bruen which identifies several states\u2019 shall issue permitting regimes and says those are acceptable. [The footnote] includes Oregon\u2019s concealed handgun license regime, which has many of the same features that Measure 114 includes.<\/p>\n<p class=\"article-body__text article-body--padding color_dgray m-none\"><i><b>Miller:\u00a0<\/b><\/i><i>Plaintiffs say permit-to-purchase regimes all came in the 20th Century, which is \u201ctoo little and too late to provide insight into the meaning of a much older constitutional provision.\u201d<\/i><\/p>\n<p class=\"article-body__text article-body--padding color_dgray m-none\"><i>What precedent are you relying on from other states? And, how do you deal with this question of a precedent that\u2019s too recent?<\/i><\/p>\n<p class=\"article-body__text article-body--padding color_dgray m-none\"><b>Kron:\u00a0<\/b>Well, the state is making a number of arguments in response to that contention. One is simply that there\u2019s the legal argument that there\u2019s really no textual difference in the Second Amendment between the right to keep arms and the right to bear arms. And nothing in Bruen specifically talks about such a difference either. In terms of facts, we are both pointing to some prior regulation, some early regulations, of firearms, including tax requirements and census requirements so that states could be aware of who owned guns and how many existed. But we\u2019re also pointing out that the Supreme Court in Bruen was very careful to say that its test was not creating a regulatory straitjacket for states.<\/p>\n<p class=\"article-body__text article-body--padding color_dgray m-none\">The Bruen opinion says that if there are unprecedented societal concerns or extreme technological changes the kinds of regulations that will suffice to show a tradition of regulating arms in this country needs to be looked at as a question of analogies rather than an exact match.<\/p>\n<div class=\"article-body--padding article-body-ad\">\n<div class=\"ad-container f_primary border articleBody\n\n      \"><\/p>\n<section>\n<div class=\"float_left color_dgray\">THANKS TO OUR SPONSOR:<\/div>\n<div class=\"float_right\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.opb.org\/sponsorship\/\">Become a Sponsor<\/a><\/div>\n<\/section>\n<div id=\"ad-id-articleBody-mobile-tablet-desktop\" class=\"ad float_clear\" data-google-query-id=\"CKyQ7O39ov8CFZQQZQodwegFMg\">\n<div id=\"google_ads_iframe_\/4646630\/OPB_horizontal_placement_01_responsive_0__container__\"><iframe id=\"google_ads_iframe_\/4646630\/OPB_horizontal_placement_01_responsive_0\" tabindex=\"0\" title=\"3rd party ad content\" role=\"region\" name=\"google_ads_iframe_\/4646630\/OPB_horizontal_placement_01_responsive_0\" width=\"728\" height=\"90\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" aria-label=\"Advertisement\" data-load-complete=\"true\" data-google-container-id=\"1\" data-gtm-yt-inspected-9=\"true\" data-mce-fragment=\"1\"><\/iframe><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p class=\"article-body__text article-body--padding color_dgray m-none\"><i><b>Miller:\u00a0<\/b><\/i><i>And what are the extremes that you\u2019re talking about there? And what are the technological changes?<\/i><\/p>\n<p class=\"article-body__text article-body--padding color_dgray m-none\"><b>Kron:\u00a0<\/b>Our primary arguments [regarding the permitting requirement] are that this is something Bruen specifically says is OK. They don\u2019t explain why permits to purchase are different than permits to carry. And in any event, there are historical analogs to this kind of regulation.<\/p>\n<p class=\"article-body__text article-body--padding color_dgray m-none\"><i><b>Miller:\u00a0<\/b><\/i><i>I do want to turn to the extreme societal circumstances that are also one of your arguments for why this law should be allowed and should pass constitutional muster. What is it?<\/i><\/p>\n<p class=\"article-body__text article-body--padding color_dgray m-none\"><b>Kron:<\/b>\u00a0In the context of the large-capacity magazine restrictions, the state is making two arguments. One \u2014 that the prevalence of mass shootings by single actors is an unprecedented societal problem. It\u2019s something that was not around when the Constitution was adopted in the late 18th Century, nor in the late 19th Century when the Civil War era was coming to an end. And we believe that\u2019s the kind of unprecedented societal problem that Bruen is talking about when it says this is not a regulatory straitjacket for states.<\/p>\n<p class=\"article-body__text article-body--padding color_dgray m-none\">So that\u2019s one of the arguments.<\/p>\n<p class=\"article-body__text article-body--padding color_dgray m-none\">The other argument is \u2014 just in terms of the technology, we do not believe that the large capacity magazines and the semiautomatic weapons that they facilitate are remotely comparable to any of the firearms that existed in the 1790s or even really in the 1870s. And the idea that we\u2019re taking issue with is that the court can only uphold these regulations if these things that functionally did not exist had been regulated at those times.<\/p>\n<p class=\"article-body__text article-body--padding color_dgray m-none\"><i><b>Miller:\u00a0<\/b><\/i><i>Going back to the question of the way these guns are sometimes used in terrible ways in mass shootings \u2014 the plaintiffs argue in response that, for the most part, these [high-capacity magazines] are commonly owned by law-abiding citizens for lawful purposes and that you shouldn\u2019t prohibit lawful citizens from owning these things just because sometimes they\u2019re used to do terrible things.<\/i><\/p>\n<p class=\"article-body__text article-body--padding color_dgray m-none\"><i>How do you respond broadly to that argument?<\/i><\/p>\n<p class=\"article-body__text article-body--padding color_dgray m-none\"><b>Kron:\u00a0<\/b>Well, we will be presenting evidence next week that talks about how often these firearms, and specifically large capacity magazines are used. We will also be presenting evidence that essentially any firearm can be used with a magazine that has a capacity of 10 or under. So the argument that the state is presenting and the evidence that we will be presenting is basically that, in our view, these [magazines] are not actually particularly well suited to defensive use, or any lawful uses frankly, but that, in fact, where they primarily make a difference is in these mass shooting events.<\/p>\n<p class=\"article-body__text article-body--padding color_dgray m-none\"><i><b>Miller:<\/b><\/i><i>\u00a0This is a bench trial, meaning that it\u2019s up to the judge to rule on the different arguments that you and the plaintiffs will be making, as opposed to a jury.<\/i><\/p>\n<p class=\"article-body__text article-body--padding color_dgray m-none\"><i>What\u2019s the likely timing here for the federal trial?<\/i><\/p>\n<p class=\"article-body__text article-body--padding color_dgray m-none\"><b>Kron:<\/b>\u00a0I think that\u2019s a question for Judge [Karin] Immergut. I\u2019m not going to predict the timing of her decision.<\/p>\n<p class=\"article-body__text article-body--padding color_dgray m-none\"><i><b>Miller:\u00a0<\/b><\/i><i>What about predicting the response from your end or the plaintiffs? Is it essentially guaranteed that whichever side loses will appeal?<\/i><\/p>\n<p class=\"article-body__text article-body--padding color_dgray m-none\"><b>Kron:\u00a0<\/b>I would be shocked if that were not to happen.<\/p>\n<p class=\"article-body__text article-body--padding color_dgray m-none\"><i><b>Miller:\u00a0<\/b><\/i><i>There\u2019s also the state trial in the fall. How different will those issues be?<\/i><\/p>\n<p class=\"article-body__text article-body--padding color_dgray m-none\"><b>Kron:\u00a0<\/b>Well, that\u2019s a very excellent question. I think they will be different. The state court judge has been fairly clear that he is not assessing this under the Second Amendment test of Bruen but under the Oregon Constitution\u2019s right to bear arms.<\/p>\n<p class=\"article-body__text article-body--padding color_dgray m-none\">On the other hand, there have been some suggestions made in the case that the judge should view that Second Amendment test as a floor for interpreting the Oregon Constitution. I can\u2019t really predict how those arguments will be ultimately resolved by the judge for the [state] trial, but I would expect that there will be similarities [between the state and federal trials] and that you\u2019re likely to see a similar mix of expert testimony on each side with a little bit of testimony from local law enforcement and from the state police about how the permitting system, in particular, will work if allowed to be implemented. And then some testimony from the plaintiffs talking about their interest in the case, their ownership of guns, their intention to acquire guns in the future, things of that nature.<\/p>\n<p class=\"article-body__text article-body--padding color_dgray m-none\"><i><b>Miller:\u00a0<\/b><\/i><i>Let\u2019s say that magically tomorrow, the federal and state cases were to evaporate and this law could take effect. Is the regulatory apparatus from the Oregon State Police and on down to local law enforcement levels, in place? And how long will it be before it actually could actually fully function?<\/i><\/p>\n<p class=\"article-body__text article-body--padding color_dgray m-none\"><b>Kron:\u00a0<\/b>Well, the local law enforcement question is not really one I can answer directly. I don\u2019t represent the local law enforcement entities that are responsible for administering the permit system on the ground.<\/p>\n<p class=\"article-body__text article-body--padding color_dgray m-none\">The state police will provide evidence saying that they are ready to implement their parts of Measure 114. I don\u2019t think anybody would say that it is in a state that is ideal or how we fundamentally want it to work once the process is a little bit better established, but the state is prepared to do its part to implement Measure 114.<\/p>\n<p class=\"article-body__text article-body--padding color_dgray m-none\"><i><b>Miller:<\/b><\/i><i>\u00a0Michael Kron, thanks very much for your time.<\/i><\/p>\n<p class=\"article-body__text article-body--padding color_dgray m-none\"><b>Kron:<\/b>\u00a0Thank you, Dave.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>New Oregon gun law, Measure 114, to face federal court test next week Oregonians passed\u00a0Measure 114\u00a0in November. It would ban the manufacture, purchase or sale of magazines capable of holding more than 10 rounds of ammunition. It would also require people to take a safety course and pass a background check to get a permit &hellip; <a href=\"https:\/\/milesfortis.com\/?p=93327\" class=\"more-link\">Continue reading<span class=\"screen-reader-text\"> &#8220;&#8221;<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[23,50,8],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-93327","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-courts","category-goobermint","category-rkba"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/milesfortis.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/93327","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/milesfortis.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/milesfortis.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/milesfortis.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/milesfortis.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=93327"}],"version-history":[{"count":2,"href":"https:\/\/milesfortis.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/93327\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":93329,"href":"https:\/\/milesfortis.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/93327\/revisions\/93329"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/milesfortis.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=93327"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/milesfortis.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=93327"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/milesfortis.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=93327"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}