Rep. Pat Fallon (R-Texas), who presided over the hearing, said the parents, Manuel and Patricia Oliver, were removed because they violated the hearing’s rules of decorum. He said purposes of discussion and debate are not served when meetings are disrupted.

“Dissent is not kryptonite,” Fallon said.

The Olivers’ 17-year-old son, Joaquin, was killed on Feb. 14, 2018, by a gunman who entered the school.

Fallon called a 5-minute recess about two hours into the hearing after the victim’s mother appeared to blame Republicans for “taking my son away from me.” Fallon asked officers to remove the couple, which drew loud protests.

Fallon said the hearing would be run civilly and with decorum as the demonstrators could be heard in the background. At one point Fallon looked at another congressman and asked, “Can’t the Capitol Police do their job?”

Later in the hearing, Rep. Ro Khanna (D-Calif.) identified the couple and said that Manuel had been arrested. He asked Fallon if the committee could do something about that. Khanna said the committee should acknowledge the couple’s grief and pain.

“We need to, in this country, have some empathy,” Khanna said.

Fallon replied that he had no way of knowing who the couple was or why they were there. He also pointed out that no one on the committee had asked for them to be arrested.

“We requested they be removed, we did not request their arrest,” Fallon said. “What happened in the hallway, I can’t speak to.”

Prior to the disturbance, Amy Swearer, a senior legal fellow with The Heritage foundation, was one of four witnesses testifying on March 23 before a joint hearing of subcommittees of the House Committee on the Judiciary and the House Committee on Oversight and Accountability titled “ATF’s Assault on the Second Amendment: When is Enough Enough?”.

She agreed with ATF supporters that the agency does important work, but added that it also has a history of questionable actions.

“At its best, ATF and its agents play an integral role in combating gun crime,” Amy Swearer a senior legal fellow with The Heritage Foundation wrote in her submitted testimony. “At its worst, it acts as a fifth column for gun control advocacy groups.”

She told the hearing that such actions as the recent implementation of zero-tolerance policies for federally licensed gun dealers and changes to the legal definition of short-barreled rifles are examples of the agencies’ overreach.

Committee member Rep. Cori Bush (D-Mo.) said Republican efforts to hinder the ATF’s work would endanger people. She said that as a survivor of gun violence, she is concerned that there are more guns in America than people.

Justin Barrett, owner of Barrett Outdoors in Durant, Oklahoma, displays an AK pistol with a pistol stabilizing brace. On the counter next to him is a similar brace for an AR15 pistol.

“We’re asking for reasonable restrictions,” Bush said.

Swearer was one of three witnesses who testified that the ATF needs to be reined in by Congress. The fourth witness, Robert B. Wilcox Jr., Federal Legal Director for Everytown for Gun Safety, said any limits on ATF should be considered carefully.

He said the ATF is essential for keeping Americans safe from gun violence.

“Now, more than ever, we need an ATF that has the resources and support to suppress the flow of illegal guns,” Wilcox said.

He pointed out that the ATF has helped local law enforcement solve thousands of crimes by tracing guns and processing evidence through the National Integrated Ballistic Information Network.

Researcher Valerie Sargo simulates a check done for the National Instant Criminal Background Check System or NICS, at the FBI’s criminal justice center in Bridgeport, W.Va., on Nov. 18, 2014. (AP Photo/Matt Stroud)

He added that the ATF keeps guns out of the wrong hands through its background check system and the enforcement of Extreme Risk Protection orders, the so-called Red Flag laws. Wilcox said hobbling the ATF now would carry a considerable cost.

“It’s about saving lives,” he said.

Swearer agreed that the ATF had done excellent work. But, she said, throughout its history, ATF has also been involved in some high-profile scandals and other lesser-known bad acts.

“The litany of recent abuses is long,” she said.

Swearer said one of the ATF’s most egregious, though the less obvious problem, is its arbitrary rulemaking authority. She said the agency’s enforcement of federal gun regulations often seems to be focused more on making criminals than catching them.

ATF agents gather in a parking lot, down the road from the entrance to Ft. Meade, Md., after a vehicle rammed a gate to the National Security Agency there, on March 30, 2015. (AP Photo/Andrew Harnik)

“ATF has struggled to prove that, as an agency, its priorities are to catch criminals and not to arbitrarily create criminals out of peaceable citizens,” she said.

Alex Bosco is the owner of SB Tactical and is part of the reason the hearing was scheduled. Bosco’s company manufactures and sells the pistol stabilizing brace, which has become the symbol of agency overreach for many gun owners.

At issue is a device Bosco invented in 2012 to assist shooters with disabilities and others who may need help shooting pistols built on specific semiautomatic rifle platforms. The stabilizing brace allows the shooter a steadier aim while holding the gun with one hand.

Bosco said he submitted his design to the ATF to ensure it didn’t violate the National Firearms Act (NFA). The NFA was written in 1934 to address gangland violence.

According to Bosco, for the past10 years, he and other law-abiding gun owners received mixed signals from the ATF about the legality of the stabilizing brace. Finally, in 2022, the Biden administration ordered the ATF to declare that the device legally changed large format pistols into short-barreled rifles, which are illegal under the NFA.

Bosco said the new rule’s impact goes beyond just a firearm accessory and does little to make anyone safer. He told the committee that one decision has potentially made millions of Americans felons and could cost the country between $2 billion and $5 billion.

‘It’s Enough When You Say It’s Enough’

In addition to millions of Americans who must either destroy their previously-legal firearms or register those firearms with the government and pay a tax, Bosco said thousands of jobs would be lost.

“I am bearing that cost personally,” Bosco said. “As a direct result of the rule, the company I founded, SB Tactical, will likely go out of business within the next few months.”

Swearer told the committee that the title of the hearing asks when is enough enough?

“It’s enough when you say it’s enough and will continue until you stop it,” she said.